1 00:00:02,020 --> 00:00:06,100 This programme contains strong language from the start 2 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:09,740 I'm not sure if I'm going to go in. Really? Yeah. 3 00:00:09,740 --> 00:00:12,140 You'll be fine. It'll be cold. Fear of drowning. 4 00:00:13,780 --> 00:00:16,100 Oh, maybe. You try it for a bit. I'll go first. 5 00:00:18,420 --> 00:00:22,260 Looking good. Looking rough. Scaredy-cat. 6 00:00:23,540 --> 00:00:25,540 I'm not sure. Don't fancy it? 7 00:00:39,860 --> 00:00:41,420 Reuben! 8 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:44,900 Reu...! 9 00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:56,900 No prints, nothing taken or disturbed. 10 00:00:59,540 --> 00:01:02,580 No. Unfortunately, the... the blood sample 11 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:05,900 wasn't big enough for the lab to get a full DNA read. 12 00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:09,820 It's disappointing. 13 00:01:09,820 --> 00:01:11,820 Wow. 14 00:01:11,820 --> 00:01:14,820 I really thought there was enough for a full sample. 15 00:01:14,820 --> 00:01:15,820 Apparently not. 16 00:01:17,020 --> 00:01:18,100 What about the glove mark? 17 00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:20,220 Not enough resolution for them to do anything with. 18 00:01:20,220 --> 00:01:23,900 You know, I took photos of the house right 19 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:27,420 after the break-in. And nothing was touched? 20 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:28,460 No. 21 00:01:29,580 --> 00:01:32,380 Or they put everything back in its place, 22 00:01:32,380 --> 00:01:35,460 which is what you would do if you were installing a listening device. 23 00:01:35,460 --> 00:01:37,420 I've applied for warrants to do exactly that. 24 00:01:37,420 --> 00:01:39,460 You were a copper? Serious crime squad, 25 00:01:39,460 --> 00:01:42,500 covert surveillance unit, counter corruption. 26 00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:43,620 I'm innocent. 27 00:01:45,860 --> 00:01:47,020 Well, I mean, um... 28 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:53,340 ...as you know, we've done a couple of sweeps. 29 00:01:53,340 --> 00:01:55,260 Er, nothing. 30 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:59,860 No. Me neither. So, um, you know, there's not much more we can do. 31 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:02,980 OK. 32 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:24,300 HE PANTS 33 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:44,820 HE GROANS AND BREATHES HEAVILY 34 00:02:52,660 --> 00:02:54,340 PHONE VIBRATES 35 00:02:56,980 --> 00:02:58,460 PHONE RINGS 36 00:03:06,820 --> 00:03:09,460 But you've worked in surveillance, haven't you, for years? 37 00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:12,700 So you're telling me you can't actually see 38 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:14,620 if they've got a new computer or not? 39 00:03:14,620 --> 00:03:15,620 No. 40 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:19,620 I've done what I can to check, but you just can't tell now. 41 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:23,700 You see, there's this incognito spyware - 42 00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:25,180 runs a keylogger in the background, 43 00:03:25,180 --> 00:03:27,260 which means they can record every key you press, 44 00:03:27,260 --> 00:03:28,340 every mouse click, 45 00:03:28,340 --> 00:03:30,460 they can see the emails you write, your messages, 46 00:03:30,460 --> 00:03:33,100 your passwords, etc - everything. 47 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:34,940 But they build it so you don't know it's there. 48 00:03:36,020 --> 00:03:40,660 What do the... What did the police say? Well, an officer came out. 49 00:03:40,660 --> 00:03:42,100 He took a sample of the blood. 50 00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:45,420 There was some blood on the handle downstairs, 51 00:03:45,420 --> 00:03:48,380 and he thought he could see a disposable glove mark in it, 52 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:49,460 which means that whoever 53 00:03:49,460 --> 00:03:52,100 did it wants to make sure they're untraceable. 54 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:54,860 He did think they could find a DNA result. 55 00:03:54,860 --> 00:03:56,740 And then nothing. Nothing happens. 56 00:03:58,220 --> 00:03:59,940 What do you think this is? 57 00:03:59,940 --> 00:04:02,100 Anything they can find to discredit us. 58 00:04:03,140 --> 00:04:04,940 Something that would look good on 59 00:04:04,940 --> 00:04:08,100 the cover of the Daily Mail, for example. I mean, 60 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:10,700 I can't think of anything that, you know, I mean... 61 00:04:10,700 --> 00:04:13,380 Well, you know what it is. What's that? 62 00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:16,180 It's the free jazz. 63 00:04:16,180 --> 00:04:19,740 If that gets out, we're fucked. Oh, fuck off! 64 00:04:19,740 --> 00:04:22,660 But who would want to discredit us? I don't know. 65 00:04:22,660 --> 00:04:26,340 It could be a burglar who just got scared and legged it. 66 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:30,740 Yeah, well. Or he could have just seen Charla's Hawaiian cushions. 67 00:04:30,740 --> 00:04:33,140 Don't say that in front of Charla. I'm not going to do that. 68 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:34,700 I want to hang on to my balls. 69 00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:38,980 You know, the other day when this happened, 70 00:04:38,980 --> 00:04:43,900 the first thing I did was pick up the phone to you. 71 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:45,580 Yeah. No, I saw that. I did see it. Yeah. 72 00:04:45,580 --> 00:04:50,300 You probably saw it. I hung up just to... Yeah, yeah, yeah. 73 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:54,620 I just think that what we need now is... We need, um... 74 00:04:54,620 --> 00:04:56,980 We need a whistleblower, don't we? 75 00:04:56,980 --> 00:05:01,020 And we need someone from inside the agency... And high up. 76 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:03,020 From the top. Yeah. 77 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:07,140 Uh, Eileen said that we must be making a difference. 78 00:05:07,140 --> 00:05:08,900 Did she? Yeah. She did. 79 00:05:08,900 --> 00:05:12,060 So come on, let's, um... That's the point, isn't it? Yeah, we are. 80 00:05:12,060 --> 00:05:13,900 There's no point doing this unless we make a difference. 81 00:05:13,900 --> 00:05:16,060 No, let's keep going. Let's keep going. 82 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:19,380 And let's find that fucking whistleblower. Right? 83 00:05:19,380 --> 00:05:24,540 "June 2019. Sir James Bevan, Environment Agency. 84 00:05:24,540 --> 00:05:26,580 "Dear Sir James, I'm writing to your office, 85 00:05:26,580 --> 00:05:29,380 "as I'm sure you will know where to direct the question." 86 00:05:29,380 --> 00:05:32,900 "October 2019. Dear Sir James, 87 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:34,740 "I wrote to you to raise concerns about 88 00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:38,020 "a serious integrity issue involving the agency." 89 00:05:38,020 --> 00:05:39,060 "Dear Sir James, 90 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:42,380 "34 days have now passed since I sent you evidence. 91 00:05:42,380 --> 00:05:45,060 "I've given up expecting a reply from you." 92 00:05:47,580 --> 00:05:50,180 TYPING "Dear Ashley, 93 00:05:50,180 --> 00:05:57,180 "I am in receipt of your email to Sir James. 94 00:05:57,180 --> 00:06:01,100 "Would you mind coming to our office and would the 19th suit?" 95 00:06:12,380 --> 00:06:15,580 Is Sir James not coming? I'm afraid not. 96 00:06:15,580 --> 00:06:17,460 No. Sir James wouldn't routinely 97 00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:19,380 attend meetings at this kind of level. 98 00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:20,540 I'd hoped he'd be here. 99 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:24,380 He's time poor. Yeah. He's aware of your work. 100 00:06:24,380 --> 00:06:26,460 Well, er, well, we're trying to find out, 101 00:06:26,460 --> 00:06:27,900 what you're going to do about 102 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:31,900 the illegal sewage overflow, at Bourton. 103 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:33,660 The combined storm overflow. Yeah. 104 00:06:33,660 --> 00:06:36,140 The combined storm overflow at Bourton 105 00:06:36,140 --> 00:06:39,540 has shown no detectable effects on the water quality. 106 00:06:39,540 --> 00:06:42,100 The water quality is stable and not deteriorating. 107 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:43,540 I mean, our data shows very clearly 108 00:06:43,540 --> 00:06:47,020 that we have the best quality water since the Industrial Revolution. 109 00:06:50,020 --> 00:06:52,300 The water's turned brown. Yeah. 110 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:54,260 It's turned so brown that when it joins 111 00:06:54,260 --> 00:06:55,380 the Thames at Newbridge, 112 00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:58,100 it makes the Thames look like a Swiss mountain stream. 113 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:01,580 Uh, the... the water is brown 114 00:07:01,580 --> 00:07:04,020 in places, but that's a natural phenomenon. 115 00:07:04,020 --> 00:07:05,580 It's caused by geological fault. 116 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:09,700 A geological fault? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. 117 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:12,860 A geological fault is millions of years old. 118 00:07:12,860 --> 00:07:15,260 Mm. We remember when the water was clear. 119 00:07:15,260 --> 00:07:18,420 No-one remembers the good old days before the geological fault. 120 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:21,380 In the last 12 months since we installed sensors, 121 00:07:21,380 --> 00:07:23,380 there's been no evidence of pollution. 122 00:07:23,380 --> 00:07:24,420 That's because you've installed 123 00:07:24,420 --> 00:07:26,700 the monitors upstream from the sewage pipes. 124 00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:30,100 Now, is that incompetence or an attempt to cover up a scandal? 125 00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:32,860 No, no. The agency would never position 126 00:07:32,860 --> 00:07:34,740 a monitor to achieve a particular reading. 127 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:37,260 We are working extremely hard to transform the environment. 128 00:07:37,260 --> 00:07:39,500 We've improved and protected something like, 129 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:43,460 I think it's 15,000km of river. I'm sorry, 130 00:07:43,460 --> 00:07:47,020 but you've had 92 complaints from 131 00:07:47,020 --> 00:07:49,140 the general public about sewage pollution, 132 00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:50,420 and that's just the Windrush. 133 00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:52,260 I've actually got the breakdown here. 134 00:07:52,260 --> 00:07:56,460 It's, er... Yeah, yeah. Er... 135 00:07:56,460 --> 00:07:57,780 In... Er... Well, 136 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:01,700 in 36 of those cases, there was no offence, 137 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:06,140 and in 39 there was insufficient evidence. 138 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:11,060 And in six we were unable to identify the offender. 139 00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:13,620 Oh, what do you mean, you couldn't identify the offenders? 140 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:15,140 Why can't you identify the offenders? 141 00:08:15,140 --> 00:08:17,380 There's seven sewage works along the Windrush. 142 00:08:17,380 --> 00:08:19,820 They're all run by Thames Water. So I mean, 143 00:08:19,820 --> 00:08:21,420 you say you've got insufficient evidence, 144 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:23,220 but we keep giving you the evidence. 145 00:08:23,220 --> 00:08:25,100 All we ever do is give you the evidence. 146 00:08:25,100 --> 00:08:27,700 And all we get back is "It's under investigation." 147 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:32,380 And then nothing, nothing, nothing ever happens. 148 00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:34,940 In exceptional circumstances, for example, 149 00:08:34,940 --> 00:08:39,460 after heavy rain, the sewage systems are allowed to overflow. 150 00:08:39,460 --> 00:08:42,100 No. No, you see, that's not... That's not the law. 151 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:45,660 The law is that in all normal climatic conditions, 152 00:08:45,660 --> 00:08:47,980 including heavy rainfall, 153 00:08:47,980 --> 00:08:49,940 the water companies have to treat the sewage. 154 00:08:49,940 --> 00:08:51,020 They have to make it safe 155 00:08:51,020 --> 00:08:52,660 before they put it back into the river. 156 00:08:53,660 --> 00:08:56,780 The law is a grey area. No, no, it's not a grey area. 157 00:08:56,780 --> 00:08:59,580 With respect, it's the law. Sorry... Can I...? 158 00:08:59,580 --> 00:09:00,700 Sorry. 159 00:09:02,340 --> 00:09:05,540 Thames had their own data - 160 00:09:05,540 --> 00:09:08,940 it shows they stopped treating sewage 161 00:09:08,940 --> 00:09:11,860 at Northleach for more than three months. 162 00:09:11,860 --> 00:09:15,380 Now, they told us that their sensors had broken down, 163 00:09:15,380 --> 00:09:18,020 but we think they're lying. 164 00:09:19,780 --> 00:09:23,500 They're ly... They're lying? So why would they do that? 165 00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:24,980 Why would they lie to you? 166 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:39,300 LIFT DINGS 167 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:40,700 Doors closing. 168 00:09:45,540 --> 00:09:47,060 We're Potemkin regulators. 169 00:09:49,580 --> 00:09:50,620 Sorry? 170 00:09:52,460 --> 00:09:53,620 The regulation isn't real. 171 00:09:54,780 --> 00:09:56,300 The government want us to look like 172 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,180 a regulator, but they won't let us do our job. 173 00:09:59,540 --> 00:10:00,540 OK. 174 00:10:02,180 --> 00:10:04,660 When Cameron and Truss gutted the agency, 175 00:10:04,660 --> 00:10:07,460 we went from regulating the industry to doing its bidding. 176 00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:11,100 Do you think we could take your number? 177 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:12,100 Look, just keep going. 178 00:10:16,060 --> 00:10:19,900 This is going to be the first government in modern history that, 179 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:21,620 at the end of its parliamentary term, 180 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:22,860 has less regulation 181 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:25,700 in place than there was at the beginning. 182 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:26,940 We've now identified 183 00:10:26,940 --> 00:10:29,460 those 3,000 regulations that we're going to scrap. 184 00:10:29,460 --> 00:10:32,540 Let's reduce the amount and the burden of regulation... 185 00:10:32,540 --> 00:10:33,580 Strangled by red tape... 186 00:10:33,580 --> 00:10:35,980 Cut back the health and safety, monster... 187 00:10:35,980 --> 00:10:37,660 Cut guidance by 80%, 188 00:10:37,660 --> 00:10:41,420 and reduce farm inspections by 34,000 every year. 189 00:10:41,420 --> 00:10:42,580 Regulations will go. 190 00:10:42,580 --> 00:10:45,100 None of my ministers could introduce a regulation 191 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:47,260 unless they abolished one at the same time. 192 00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:49,700 Massively reduce the number of rules, 193 00:10:49,700 --> 00:10:51,340 laws and regulations 194 00:10:51,340 --> 00:10:54,060 that frankly treat all of you like idiots. 195 00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:03,140 So really, it's about stripping out as much unnecessary regulation 196 00:11:03,140 --> 00:11:05,900 as possible and taking responsibility 197 00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:08,020 for climate change and saying, 198 00:11:08,020 --> 00:11:11,780 "What more can we do to get us to net zero?" 199 00:11:11,780 --> 00:11:12,860 As you know, 200 00:11:12,860 --> 00:11:15,580 this is a passion project for Sir James, 201 00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:22,420 who feels that we can bring our car usage down by 70%. 202 00:11:22,420 --> 00:11:27,100 Yeah. It's... Yeah. So from next month, 203 00:11:27,100 --> 00:11:29,340 we're going to be taking the bold 204 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:33,700 decision to cut back decisively on our car leases. 205 00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:41,820 Yeah. Come on. Sorry. Just, like, to clarify, 206 00:11:41,820 --> 00:11:44,940 what, you're going to get rid of our cars? 207 00:11:44,940 --> 00:11:49,380 So it's about reducing the agency's carbon footprint. 208 00:11:49,380 --> 00:11:50,740 Just getting that... Yeah. 209 00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:56,300 Go ahead, Hanna. The cars that we drive to the inspections in? 210 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:59,460 Right. Yeah. So... So self monitoring 211 00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:03,660 and a more desk-based regulation is really... It's really 212 00:12:03,660 --> 00:12:06,180 helping us move the needle on climate change. 213 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:13,940 But the... the remaining inspections? Well, yeah. 214 00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:17,980 How do we get to those without a car? Yeah. 215 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:22,420 That's a great question. It's a really great question. 216 00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:25,660 Um, we'll take that forward to the next discussion meeting. 217 00:12:25,660 --> 00:12:27,780 Thanks, Hanna. 218 00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:29,100 Yeah, lovely. Great. Thanks, everyone. 219 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:32,020 Not easy news to break, is it? Surprise, surprise - Debbie's 220 00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:34,620 got something to say. I know, but my car... 221 00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:36,860 Everyone's driving cars. We're the Environment Agency. 222 00:12:36,860 --> 00:12:38,820 Absolutely. You should keep your... What's wrong with the train? 223 00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:41,020 I'll keep mine, I think. So, yeah. Yeah. 224 00:12:41,020 --> 00:12:42,740 Mm. Coffee? How do I get a coffee? 225 00:12:44,380 --> 00:12:45,900 Does anybody know what we're looking at? 226 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:48,900 Anybody? 227 00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:52,420 OK, could you tell me what the reactants are? 228 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:55,500 So, if you move your head even slightly, 229 00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:58,140 the vertigo gets more intense. Yeah. 230 00:12:58,140 --> 00:13:00,900 And the attacks are happening maybe twice a week? 231 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:02,020 About that, yeah. 232 00:13:05,940 --> 00:13:08,980 The good news is that you don't have cancer. 233 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:13,020 We actually think it's Meniere's. It's a disease of the inner ear. 234 00:13:13,020 --> 00:13:16,900 The main symptom is acute vertigo episodes, 235 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:19,100 vomiting, tinnitus. 236 00:13:20,620 --> 00:13:22,780 It's a pretty neat fit with your presentation. 237 00:13:24,740 --> 00:13:26,060 STUDENTS MUTTER 238 00:13:26,060 --> 00:13:27,540 They were dumping sewage... 239 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:32,020 ...in the water the last time before I got sick. 240 00:13:32,020 --> 00:13:35,020 Right. You know that from...? 241 00:13:35,020 --> 00:13:37,260 The Surfers Against Sewage app. OK. 242 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:42,060 And might that be...? The causes are unclear. 243 00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:44,260 It's post-viral. This often starts 244 00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:47,020 with an ear infection in that they're common in surfers. 245 00:13:47,020 --> 00:13:48,660 Yeah. Every surfer I know. 246 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:50,660 HE RETCHES Oh, my God! 247 00:13:52,140 --> 00:13:55,420 This is a chronic condition. 248 00:13:55,420 --> 00:13:56,980 I'm afraid there's no cure. 249 00:14:19,180 --> 00:14:20,580 Should we move the table away? 250 00:14:23,220 --> 00:14:24,500 Just hold his back. 251 00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:53,580 So by ending on-site Inspections into 252 00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:55,660 categories three and four, 253 00:14:55,660 --> 00:14:58,020 no or low-impact pollution events, 254 00:14:58,020 --> 00:15:01,420 and doubling down on the more serious 255 00:15:01,420 --> 00:15:04,500 category one and two incidents, 256 00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:08,860 we think we can turn ourselves into a more effective fighting unit. 257 00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:10,820 Yeah. So from today we are 258 00:15:10,820 --> 00:15:14,300 ending on-site inspections for cats three and four. 259 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:15,780 Any questions? 260 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:20,780 Well, yeah. Um... 261 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:25,340 A category three incident can be two kilometres of sewage. 262 00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:26,620 Mm-hm. 263 00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:28,660 We want you to not inspect, 264 00:15:28,660 --> 00:15:31,580 to not spend time on these incidents. 265 00:15:32,860 --> 00:15:38,540 Except that since the water companies have been self-reporting, 266 00:15:38,540 --> 00:15:42,660 they almost always only report category threes and fours. 267 00:15:42,660 --> 00:15:45,260 So they're not actually reporting the serious incident. 268 00:15:45,260 --> 00:15:48,180 And so if the water companies are only reporting... 269 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:49,740 Threes and fours. ...threes and fours, 270 00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:52,940 and we're no longer allowed to investigate... 271 00:15:52,940 --> 00:15:56,060 So what exactly are we going to be doing? Wha...? 272 00:15:56,060 --> 00:15:59,300 I've told the government you get the regulation you pay for. 273 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:01,340 We no longer have the money to go on inspecting 274 00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:02,900 low-grade pollution events. 275 00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:07,700 We need you to shut down these reports as unsubstantiated, 276 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:10,060 or to silently pass them 277 00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:12,900 and to not report them as pollution incidents. 278 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:14,300 Is that clear? 279 00:16:19,180 --> 00:16:20,940 Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. 280 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:22,460 Get on with your day. Yeah. 281 00:16:25,660 --> 00:16:27,020 I'll just... 282 00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:36,620 The utter fuck? Fucking wankers! 283 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:38,340 How are you gonna get to fucking work? 284 00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:39,940 Fuck knows. 285 00:16:41,260 --> 00:16:43,660 Horseback. SHE CHUCKLES 286 00:16:50,180 --> 00:16:53,540 What time did he call you? 10:30 last night. 287 00:16:56,020 --> 00:16:57,620 He said you couldn't miss it. 288 00:17:08,420 --> 00:17:09,940 Oh, my God, look at it. 289 00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:18,020 I'll get some shots and we'll call the agency on the way back. 290 00:17:32,940 --> 00:17:34,940 TYPES ON KEYBOARD 291 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:19,900 TYPES ON KEYBOARD 292 00:18:43,820 --> 00:18:45,580 Debbie... Mm? 293 00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:47,380 ...are you driving in to work tomorrow? 294 00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:49,580 Yeah, obviously. How else would I get in? 295 00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:52,580 Well, can I borrow your car at lunchtime? 296 00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:53,820 What for? 297 00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:57,500 Someone keeps calling up and complaining 298 00:18:57,500 --> 00:18:59,660 about the same incident. 299 00:18:59,660 --> 00:19:03,180 It's near the bridge at Hawk Rise, so I'm gonna go and take a look. 300 00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:05,580 Shh! OK. 301 00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:08,860 Bit freelance investigation? Bit of freelance. 302 00:19:08,860 --> 00:19:11,500 And also, it needs to be off the books, 303 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:15,420 and I need you to promise me not to tell Sophie. 304 00:19:15,420 --> 00:19:17,580 Not gonna tell Sophie. You're not going to tell Sophie? 305 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:19,900 Obviously no, I don't tell Sophie anything. 306 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:21,900 TENSE MUSIC PLAYS 307 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:29,700 TENSE MUSIC BUILDS 308 00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:52,100 Hi. Hi. Is that...? Is that Justine? 309 00:19:53,580 --> 00:19:57,340 Hi, Justine. Um, it's Hanna from the Environment Agency. 310 00:20:00,220 --> 00:20:02,780 Listen, it's about the, um... 311 00:20:02,780 --> 00:20:05,820 ...the pollution event at Hawk Rise. Um... 312 00:20:05,820 --> 00:20:09,740 ...it came through the system at a duration of 1.34 hours. 313 00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:13,900 And I'm here now, and it's still going. 314 00:20:15,980 --> 00:20:19,060 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm here now. Yeah. 315 00:20:19,060 --> 00:20:23,420 The CSO is still discharging untreated sewage. 316 00:20:23,420 --> 00:20:26,700 I mean, there's a section of the river that is covered over 317 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:28,700 with dried sewage. 318 00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,700 I mean, there's dead fish. You can see them from the footpath. 319 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:33,300 I mean, you're going to get more complaints. 320 00:20:34,340 --> 00:20:35,660 You need to sort this. 321 00:20:40,660 --> 00:20:44,660 Can you prepare and cook a simple meal unaided? 322 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,900 Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack. 323 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:52,900 Then I can't do anything. I can't... I can't move. 324 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:55,540 Can you eat and drink unaided? 325 00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:58,820 Yeah, but again, not when I'm having an attack. 326 00:20:59,860 --> 00:21:01,900 And I've been getting the attacks 327 00:21:01,900 --> 00:21:04,020 every few days for the past six months. 328 00:21:04,020 --> 00:21:06,860 But if you're not having one of your attacks, 329 00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:08,740 can you eat and drink unaided? 330 00:21:08,740 --> 00:21:11,260 Yeah, but... Yes or no is fine. 331 00:21:11,260 --> 00:21:12,340 Yes. 332 00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:17,700 Can you dress and undress unaided? 333 00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:22,460 It's the same answer. 334 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:25,900 Moving on to the mobility section of this assessment, 335 00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:29,660 can you plan and follow a journey unaided? 336 00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,100 Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack. 337 00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:36,620 Stand and move for 200m? 338 00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:39,300 Not when I'm having an attack. 339 00:21:40,580 --> 00:21:43,460 You know, can you move around, walk for 200m? 340 00:21:43,460 --> 00:21:45,380 Of course I can, but not when I'm having an attack. 341 00:21:45,380 --> 00:21:47,420 OK. Thank you, Mr Santer. 342 00:21:47,420 --> 00:21:50,900 Your total score for the daily living part of the assessment is 343 00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:52,380 zero points. 344 00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:56,500 Your total score for the mobility section is zero points. 345 00:21:56,500 --> 00:21:57,860 When you're not having an attack... 346 00:21:57,860 --> 00:21:59,340 No, no, no. ...you're able to do all the tasks 347 00:21:59,340 --> 00:22:01,860 I asked you about. That's the thing with my condition... 348 00:22:01,860 --> 00:22:04,220 You can wash your face... ...is that sometimes... 349 00:22:04,220 --> 00:22:06,460 ...you can... ..I can do these things and other times I can't. 350 00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:08,620 And when I can't, I can't do anything. 351 00:22:08,620 --> 00:22:11,140 I can't award you Personal Independence Payment. No, but... 352 00:22:11,140 --> 00:22:13,940 I don't know what to do. If you need further guidance 353 00:22:13,940 --> 00:22:18,140 about how to appeal, you can use the webchat to get some help. 354 00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:20,060 If you cannot access the webchat, 355 00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:22,660 you can contact the Benefits Appeal helpline 356 00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:26,540 on 0300160... VOICE FADES 357 00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:37,700 Hanna... Oh, shit. Sorry. Sorry, didn't mean to scare you. 358 00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:40,340 Um, do you have a second? Can I have a word? 359 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:42,180 Of course. Yeah? OK, 360 00:22:42,180 --> 00:22:43,500 so I've just... I just got off 361 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:46,300 the phone to Justine Wright Phillips at the water company. 362 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:49,340 Yeah. She said you called her. 363 00:22:49,340 --> 00:22:52,420 Yeah I... Yeah. ..I did. 364 00:22:52,420 --> 00:22:54,500 OK. She said you called her from the site. 365 00:22:55,580 --> 00:22:57,460 Well, I saw that it had been logged on 366 00:22:57,460 --> 00:23:00,260 the system for the fifth time, and people kept calling up, 367 00:23:00,260 --> 00:23:02,220 complaining, and nobody was doing anything about it. 368 00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:04,660 But we don't have the revenue 369 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:06,700 to be investigating category threes. 370 00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,580 It's not a category three, Sophie. 371 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:13,940 The river is dried over with excrement. 372 00:23:13,940 --> 00:23:15,300 You can see it from... 373 00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:17,380 So that's what I wanted to talk to you about. 374 00:23:17,380 --> 00:23:18,460 So Justine says 375 00:23:18,460 --> 00:23:21,700 that the dispersal rate in that area is really high. 376 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,540 Is it? Yeah. But... She says... She says there's like a strong 377 00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:27,380 current and a high dispersal. The overflow pipe has been 378 00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:31,220 discharging for over 36 hours and it is still going... All right. 379 00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:34,260 ...untreated... That is the water company's responsibility 380 00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:36,860 to report to us. You know this. 381 00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:41,220 OK. And Justine says that actually really, 382 00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:43,940 the, um... Because of the high dispersal rate, 383 00:23:43,940 --> 00:23:46,380 that it should come down to a category four. 384 00:23:48,740 --> 00:23:51,260 Be a category four? Yes. Right. Mm-hm. 385 00:23:53,020 --> 00:23:56,140 So no impact on the environment? 386 00:23:56,140 --> 00:23:58,220 No action needed? Yes. 387 00:23:59,820 --> 00:24:00,820 Mm-hm. 388 00:24:04,020 --> 00:24:05,620 Oh, you want me to change it on the system. 389 00:24:05,620 --> 00:24:07,660 Would you, could you? 390 00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:10,380 Yeah. OK. Thanks so much. Thank you. 391 00:24:10,380 --> 00:24:12,420 That's great. Lovely. 392 00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:17,300 Wow. 393 00:24:20,780 --> 00:24:23,460 So you see how well we're doing? Yeah, of course. 394 00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:25,780 You joking? I'm not joking. 395 00:24:25,780 --> 00:24:26,980 You know Sroic? 396 00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:29,740 No. What's that? 397 00:24:29,740 --> 00:24:32,060 Strategic review of incident charges, yeah? 398 00:24:32,060 --> 00:24:35,100 It's like what we charge the clients for permits... 399 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:37,100 Sorry, we don't have clients, Cheryl, 400 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,500 we're an environment agency. Yes. OK, yeah. 401 00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:42,180 Sorry, yes, we don't have clients, but... 402 00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:45,180 ...Sir James has put the prices up. Yeah? 403 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:49,140 And I'm talking like up-up, big time. 404 00:24:49,140 --> 00:24:51,180 What, he's charging the water companies more? 405 00:24:51,180 --> 00:24:53,260 Yep. Well, they must... 406 00:24:53,260 --> 00:24:55,580 Surely, they've gone down to the government, like, lobbying them, 407 00:24:55,580 --> 00:24:58,100 going mad, getting the charges taken down. 408 00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:00,020 No. Not a peep. 409 00:25:00,020 --> 00:25:02,860 Not a peep? Sorry, that makes no sense. 410 00:25:02,860 --> 00:25:04,540 They're just paying it. 411 00:25:04,540 --> 00:25:09,020 We've basically had such a high revenue spike, yeah? 412 00:25:09,020 --> 00:25:14,940 That we are on our way to becoming a client-funded regulator. 413 00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:17,540 Sorry. Hold on one minute. This is going a bit... 414 00:25:17,540 --> 00:25:19,180 So you're saying 415 00:25:19,180 --> 00:25:23,860 that the water companies are funding the Environment Agency? 416 00:25:23,860 --> 00:25:26,460 Wow. That's what you're really...? It's happening. 417 00:25:26,460 --> 00:25:29,220 You see the you see the issues there? You can't be serious. 418 00:25:29,220 --> 00:25:34,060 A client-funded regulator. 419 00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:37,300 Amazing isn't it? How can that even be a thing? 420 00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:41,500 It's a thing. Well, hold on, because literally the other day, 421 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,780 Sir James said that you get the regulation that you pay for. 422 00:25:44,780 --> 00:25:46,620 Yeah. That we haven't got 423 00:25:46,620 --> 00:25:49,700 the money to do the investigations that we used to do. 424 00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:54,060 Nobody's paying for them. OK. That's your area, isn't it? 425 00:25:54,060 --> 00:25:57,060 I mean, all I know is that we have 426 00:25:57,060 --> 00:25:59,420 got more cash than we've ever had before. 427 00:26:01,220 --> 00:26:02,700 Just making conversation. 428 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:07,860 I've got the job. Postman? Mm-hm. 429 00:26:07,860 --> 00:26:09,180 No! Yeah. Did you? 430 00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:11,420 - Yeah. - Oh! HE LAUGHS 431 00:26:11,420 --> 00:26:14,220 Yeah, really good timing. 432 00:26:14,220 --> 00:26:15,380 Uh-huh? 433 00:26:15,380 --> 00:26:20,220 Because I did two pregnancy tests this morning. 434 00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:21,900 What? And, yeah. I'm pregnant. 435 00:26:23,340 --> 00:26:25,140 What? Yeah. Pregnant. 436 00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:27,700 No. Yeah! 437 00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:30,380 I sort of just had a funny feeling and then... 438 00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:33,620 Yeah. Did one test - two lines. 439 00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:36,420 And then I did another test and it said two lines as well, 440 00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:38,140 and I was like... 441 00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:40,220 ...fuck! SHE LAUGHS 442 00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:53,460 I'm Susan Davy. I am the CEO of Southwest Water. 443 00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:56,340 Basically, the wet weather events... Storm overflow... 444 00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:59,060 ...put a strain on our Victorian networks, 445 00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:01,580 And unfortunately, we have 446 00:27:01,580 --> 00:27:05,620 a Victorian sewage system which we have inherited. 447 00:27:05,620 --> 00:27:08,020 And that means things do go wrong. 448 00:27:08,020 --> 00:27:09,580 Just say, "Victorian sewage network." 449 00:27:09,580 --> 00:27:11,500 12%. 450 00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:14,540 12%? What's 12%? 451 00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:17,780 12% of the sewage system is Victorian. 452 00:27:17,780 --> 00:27:19,620 What do they tell you? 453 00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:22,460 That the whole of the system was Victorian, 454 00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:26,060 so that meant that the investment would be so high 455 00:27:26,060 --> 00:27:29,100 that it'd be impossible to actually fix it all. 456 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:31,100 Bollocks! Shall I tell you what stopped it? 457 00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:35,300 When privatisation came in, they just stopped spending. 458 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:37,420 After the war they kept upgrading, 459 00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:40,380 then after privatisation came in, 460 00:27:40,380 --> 00:27:41,940 they just stopped. 461 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:44,820 Not just Thames, all of them. 462 00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:47,860 6% new plants is privatisation. 463 00:27:47,860 --> 00:27:49,260 6%? 6%. 464 00:27:49,260 --> 00:27:50,740 Is that all? You know, it would be good 465 00:27:50,740 --> 00:27:54,060 if we could maybe come and visit one of the works. 466 00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:56,340 I don't know about that. Well, I'll have to see, 467 00:27:56,340 --> 00:27:58,060 lads, honestly, because... 468 00:27:58,060 --> 00:27:59,860 ...even just doing this, I feel a bit nervous. 469 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:03,780 Fucking London Stadium, that's not a proper stadium. 470 00:28:03,780 --> 00:28:04,900 Fucking massive. 471 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:07,540 Upton Park - now, that was a proper stadium, mate. 472 00:28:07,540 --> 00:28:08,940 London Stadium's too big, 473 00:28:08,940 --> 00:28:10,060 you need fucking binoculars, 474 00:28:10,060 --> 00:28:11,660 you know what I mean? Yeah. 475 00:28:11,660 --> 00:28:13,420 Sorry, Pete, did you want to see an EDM? 476 00:28:13,420 --> 00:28:16,500 Oh, yes. Yes, that's the one, well remembered. 477 00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:19,540 So this is an event duration monitor. 478 00:28:19,540 --> 00:28:23,860 Now, we fitted one of these on every sewage pipe in England. 479 00:28:23,860 --> 00:28:26,380 In 2012, right, the coalition government, 480 00:28:26,380 --> 00:28:29,380 they ordered all the water companies to record 481 00:28:29,380 --> 00:28:32,500 how much time they spend dumping raw sewage. 482 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:33,580 These little units, 483 00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:36,860 they measure how much poo goes into the river by hours. 484 00:28:36,860 --> 00:28:38,940 Management have been dragging their feet 485 00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:40,900 for eight years now, 486 00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:43,460 CAMERA CLICKS but we're finally getting most of it in now. 487 00:28:43,460 --> 00:28:46,100 And the agency, they've got to publish the numbers? 488 00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:47,140 They have to by law. 489 00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:49,660 They're not going to like it but tough shit. 490 00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:52,820 EDMs. 491 00:28:54,340 --> 00:28:55,420 Yes. Uh... 492 00:28:56,580 --> 00:29:00,340 So, uh, we are finalising plans 493 00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:04,780 for the statutory publication of the EDM numbers. 494 00:29:06,820 --> 00:29:11,100 As you know, there have been some technical delays, 495 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,140 but it looks like they're almost ready. 496 00:29:14,260 --> 00:29:18,300 And, uh, they're going to come as a bit of a shock. 497 00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:22,500 Uh, the data's going to show 498 00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:25,220 that the water companies discharged raw sewage... 499 00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:29,380 ...400,000 times in 2020. 500 00:29:29,380 --> 00:29:32,460 That's 1,100 times a day... 501 00:29:34,020 --> 00:29:38,300 ...for a total of 3.1 million hours. 502 00:29:40,820 --> 00:29:42,220 It is a bit of a shocker. 503 00:29:42,220 --> 00:29:44,780 Can I just say that, um... 504 00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:47,660 Since operator self-monitoring, 505 00:29:47,660 --> 00:29:51,300 we've had to rely on the water companies to report back to us. 506 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:53,580 Yeah, I think that the key here is 507 00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:56,980 that this doesn't get framed as a failure of regulation. 508 00:29:56,980 --> 00:29:58,540 That is... That is... 509 00:29:58,540 --> 00:30:00,260 That would be quite wrong. 510 00:30:00,260 --> 00:30:03,580 And and I think managing comms on this is going to be key. 511 00:30:03,580 --> 00:30:08,340 And we are working actively with the water companies to... 512 00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:11,700 ...to bear down on the problem. Yeah. 513 00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:16,260 And... But that's 1,100 criminal offences a day. 514 00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:18,020 Well, that's actually... That's debatable 515 00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:20,860 because that depends on the terms of the permit 516 00:30:20,860 --> 00:30:23,220 and the circumstances around each spill. 517 00:30:23,220 --> 00:30:25,820 Yeah, and we know the legislation 518 00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:28,420 permits discharging after heavy rainfall and... 519 00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:30,020 No. No, it doesn't. 520 00:30:30,020 --> 00:30:31,260 Sorry, Hanna. 521 00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:35,700 The law doesn't say that you can just dump sewage after heavy rain. 522 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:39,860 It says that in all normal climatic and seasonal circumstances, 523 00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:42,380 the water companies have to treat the sewage, 524 00:30:42,380 --> 00:30:43,980 not just dump it. 525 00:30:43,980 --> 00:30:47,460 But it's not the agency's job to adjudicate legal matters. 526 00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:50,020 I mean, this is actually a matter for the courts. 527 00:30:50,020 --> 00:30:52,740 No, no, no, this is our job. 528 00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:56,100 It's our job to enforce the law. Yeah. 529 00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:57,980 That's what we're here to do. 530 00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:01,820 Well... 531 00:31:03,020 --> 00:31:04,500 Can you, um... Yeah. 532 00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:07,460 Did you want to...? No, no, you, you finish off here, 533 00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:09,980 - Sophie. - Thank you. HE CLEARS THROAT 534 00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:13,980 So we've identified the problem, and now we work on the problem, 535 00:31:13,980 --> 00:31:16,220 which is reframing and owning the narrative. 536 00:31:16,220 --> 00:31:18,620 Yeah, we don't want this to get misconstrued 537 00:31:18,620 --> 00:31:20,780 as some sort of failure on our part, because it just isn't. 538 00:31:20,780 --> 00:31:23,780 Thanks, guys. Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much. Thanks. 539 00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:28,060 Cool. Lovely. Thanks. Thanks so much. 540 00:31:28,060 --> 00:31:29,740 By the way, um... 541 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:34,380 ...so I've heard you're going to give evidence in Parliament. 542 00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:36,540 Yes, yes. Amazing. 543 00:31:36,540 --> 00:31:38,020 Yeah, thinking about it. 544 00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:40,540 What does that mean, "Thinking about it"? 545 00:31:40,540 --> 00:31:42,140 He's, uh, he's nervous. 546 00:31:42,140 --> 00:31:43,820 Not like that, I'm not nervous. 547 00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:46,260 He's nervous. No, it's not that I'm nervous. 548 00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:48,740 I want to do it, it's just... It's difficult. 549 00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:50,780 Pete... Don't worry about him. 550 00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:52,340 Yeah. We're counting on you. 551 00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:53,700 We are really counting on you. 552 00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:55,700 And you can explain it in the scientific way. 553 00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:57,180 You're going to come across brilliantly. 554 00:31:57,180 --> 00:32:00,140 They're going to believe you, mate. Well, it... 555 00:32:00,140 --> 00:32:02,100 It's not really as simple as that. 556 00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:04,740 I mean... The boys from Mogden call me earlier, right? 557 00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:07,700 And they told me that they dumped 2 billion litres 558 00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:10,740 of sewage in the Thames over two days. 559 00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:13,420 Environment Agency haven't got a Scooby. 560 00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:15,820 Did they send you the data? I've got the data, yeah. 561 00:32:15,820 --> 00:32:17,900 Right. Can you send that to us? I will send it to you. 562 00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:19,900 We're not going to let you down. OK. 563 00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:22,060 Thanks, Ash. Please. You can do this. Come on, Pete. 564 00:32:22,060 --> 00:32:24,860 He'll be fine. It's all right. You're a legend, mate. Come on. 565 00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:40,060 We now have the lowest number of serious pollution 566 00:32:40,060 --> 00:32:42,980 incidents from water companies that we have yet recorded. 567 00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:48,940 More water companies are now at the highest level of performance, 568 00:32:48,940 --> 00:32:52,660 what we call four-star performance. 569 00:32:52,660 --> 00:32:55,820 I mean, we now have the lowest number of serious pollution 570 00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:58,780 incidents from water companies that we have yet recorded. 571 00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:11,060 TENSE MUSIC PLAYS 572 00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:15,740 COMPUTER BEEPS 573 00:33:29,020 --> 00:33:31,340 I'm an environment officer at the Agency. 574 00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:34,220 I investigate sewage pollution. 575 00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:43,100 When I first joined, it wasn't a job to get rich on. 576 00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:45,820 You know, I could see I was making a difference. 577 00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:49,700 You know, corporations want to make money. 578 00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:52,820 We make sure that they don't poison the rivers doing it. 579 00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:56,340 We could investigate, prosecute, whatever it took. 580 00:33:58,420 --> 00:34:01,700 But then they told the companies that they could... 581 00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:03,900 ...regulate themselves. 582 00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:06,700 That's operator self-monitoring? Exactly. 583 00:34:07,940 --> 00:34:12,380 Then came the Cameron cuts, then the Truss cuts. 584 00:34:12,380 --> 00:34:15,780 They laid off investigators, slashed prosecutions. 585 00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:17,700 I mean, they even took our cars off of us 586 00:34:17,700 --> 00:34:19,500 so we couldn't visit pollution sites. 587 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:22,900 So all these cuts meant you couldn't do your job properly. 588 00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:24,700 That's not it. 589 00:34:27,260 --> 00:34:30,460 In 2021, Sir James hiked the prices 590 00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:32,580 the water companies paid for their permits. 591 00:34:33,620 --> 00:34:36,300 It was called charge funded regulation. 592 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:39,300 We get 96 million from the Government. 593 00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:45,420 We are now pulling in 411 million from charges. 594 00:34:45,420 --> 00:34:48,460 All these cuts, they're just a smokescreen. 595 00:34:48,460 --> 00:34:49,780 We're swimming in cash. 596 00:34:50,780 --> 00:34:52,700 SHE SIGHS 597 00:34:52,700 --> 00:34:55,780 I am doing this because I know that it is wrong 598 00:34:55,780 --> 00:34:58,300 and that it has ruined my whole working life. 599 00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:03,340 Good luck. 600 00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:17,460 Right. 601 00:35:20,660 --> 00:35:21,700 Fucking hell. 602 00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:25,580 What should we do? Well, first we read them... 603 00:35:26,660 --> 00:35:29,100 ...and then I think we should call some journalists. 604 00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:34,580 The Environment Agency has refused to comment on 605 00:35:34,580 --> 00:35:39,580 whether agency directors currently hold shares in UK water companies. 606 00:35:39,580 --> 00:35:41,460 The agency claimed it would 607 00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:44,660 break data protection laws if it disclosed the information. 608 00:35:44,660 --> 00:35:47,260 Environment Agency chiefs secretly held 609 00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:50,460 a series of private dinners with water company bosses at 610 00:35:50,460 --> 00:35:53,140 the Royal Automobile Club in central London. 611 00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:56,260 Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act 612 00:35:56,260 --> 00:35:58,940 showed the meetings were held to discuss how 613 00:35:58,940 --> 00:36:01,660 to quell public anger over sewage spills. 614 00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:03,500 As the sewage scandal deepens, 615 00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:06,380 Environment agency CEO Sir James Bevan 616 00:36:06,380 --> 00:36:09,660 has been called to give evidence to a parliamentary committee. 617 00:36:09,660 --> 00:36:12,460 Well, we need to talk about what we say in public 618 00:36:12,460 --> 00:36:15,740 and the responsibilities we have. 619 00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:19,620 You have a duty not to openly criticise 620 00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:22,260 or discredit the organisation 621 00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:26,540 in the media or on social media. 622 00:36:26,540 --> 00:36:28,820 Or to disclose confidential 623 00:36:28,820 --> 00:36:32,700 information to anyone not authorised to receive it! 624 00:36:34,860 --> 00:36:38,100 If your comments inside or outside work impact on 625 00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:41,780 the agency's reputation by making derogatory comments about 626 00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:46,420 the organisation or your managers, or you make comments that bring 627 00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:48,700 the organisation into disrepute, 628 00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:51,580 you may be subject to disciplinary action. 629 00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:56,340 And in more serious cases, dismissal. 630 00:36:58,300 --> 00:36:59,340 Thank you. 631 00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:11,180 PETER WHISPERS, REHEARSING TO HIMSELF 632 00:37:11,180 --> 00:37:14,700 ...over the last... Over the last ten years... 633 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:17,340 I don't think I want to do this. You'll be fine. 634 00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:18,420 You need the toilet? 635 00:37:20,260 --> 00:37:22,940 I'm all right, I don't need the bloody toilet. 636 00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:24,860 Do you want a pie? 637 00:37:24,860 --> 00:37:25,860 What does that mean? 638 00:37:28,820 --> 00:37:34,460 Well, um, my garden is an island 639 00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:38,820 which the Windrush wraps around. 640 00:37:38,820 --> 00:37:41,940 I've watched it closely for 18 years 641 00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:45,180 and I watched the water turn brown. 642 00:37:45,180 --> 00:37:48,620 I led a team of scientists using 643 00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:50,740 a machine-learning analysis... 644 00:37:50,740 --> 00:37:54,740 ..of two sewage treatment works run by Thames Water. 645 00:37:54,740 --> 00:37:58,260 One of those works, the Environment Agency, 646 00:37:58,260 --> 00:38:03,020 said over ten years that only two pollution incidents 647 00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:04,780 had been reported. 648 00:38:04,780 --> 00:38:09,140 Our machine-learning analysis 649 00:38:09,140 --> 00:38:13,980 showed hundreds of illegal spills. 650 00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:18,460 More than 300 lasted 24 hours, 651 00:38:18,460 --> 00:38:23,660 and some longer than ten days 652 00:38:23,660 --> 00:38:26,060 and some for a month. 653 00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:29,220 Have you shown this evidence to the Environment Agency? 654 00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:33,260 Well, yeah, I've shown the evidence many times. 655 00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:36,860 What usually happens is that they, 656 00:38:36,860 --> 00:38:41,220 they say that... They show a sign of interest but then nothing happens. 657 00:38:44,180 --> 00:38:48,140 We work very closely with Professor Hammond of 658 00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:51,060 Windrush Against Sewage Pollution. 659 00:38:51,060 --> 00:38:56,060 We have a regular and very fruitful dialogue with him. 660 00:38:56,060 --> 00:38:58,620 You've worked closely with Professor Hammond? 661 00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:05,580 He and Ashley Smith sent you at least 13 emails detailing 662 00:39:05,580 --> 00:39:08,580 evidence of illegal sewage dumping. 663 00:39:08,580 --> 00:39:11,100 He published five evidenced reports 664 00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:14,020 documenting water company criminality, 665 00:39:14,020 --> 00:39:17,660 all of which were sent to you or your senior colleagues. 666 00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:19,340 They invited you to come 667 00:39:19,340 --> 00:39:23,340 and look at the river in 2019, 668 00:39:23,340 --> 00:39:27,860 and the following year, sent you an email with the heading 669 00:39:27,860 --> 00:39:32,100 Environment Agency Complicit in Lawbreaking. 670 00:39:37,340 --> 00:39:39,140 They never heard back. 671 00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:42,180 You never once replied in five years. 672 00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:47,180 How did you manage to work so closely with Professor Hammond 673 00:39:47,180 --> 00:39:48,900 when you never once spoke to him? 674 00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:55,060 At the Thames Water Mogden treatment works, there was a spill 675 00:39:55,060 --> 00:40:01,340 of 240 Olympic swimming pools of sewage in a single day. 676 00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:03,900 The existing monitoring failed to pick that up. 677 00:40:05,180 --> 00:40:06,740 Now, why was that? 678 00:40:06,740 --> 00:40:10,620 There will always be times when something happens, 679 00:40:10,620 --> 00:40:13,340 usually accidentally. 680 00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:18,780 If we find that a water company has breached its permit, 681 00:40:18,780 --> 00:40:20,420 we will take appropriate action. 682 00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:22,820 Does appropriate action include 683 00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:25,020 prosecuting water company executives? 684 00:40:25,020 --> 00:40:26,900 Prosecution is a very high bar, 685 00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:31,780 but where we think that's appropriate, 686 00:40:31,780 --> 00:40:33,300 we wouldn't hesitate. 687 00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:34,780 Did you prosecute in this case? 688 00:40:34,780 --> 00:40:35,780 No. 689 00:40:36,940 --> 00:40:40,300 Have you ever prosecuted any water company executives? 690 00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:44,420 No, but if we thought the evidence 691 00:40:44,420 --> 00:40:46,740 warranted it, we wouldn't hesitate. 692 00:40:48,580 --> 00:40:51,140 Last year, you told this committee that you became aware 693 00:40:51,140 --> 00:40:55,340 of sewage dumping in May 2021? Yes. 694 00:40:55,340 --> 00:40:58,140 But three weeks after that, you told the committee that 695 00:40:58,140 --> 00:41:02,540 the water companies were improving and that more of them were getting 696 00:41:02,540 --> 00:41:03,980 four out of four stars. 697 00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:08,340 Why were you telling the committee that the water companies 698 00:41:08,340 --> 00:41:09,780 were doing a four-star job? 699 00:41:12,220 --> 00:41:16,820 Well, you've... quoted everything I said. 700 00:41:16,820 --> 00:41:20,140 I think I...I stand by everything I said. 701 00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:24,500 I think you'll find them mutually consistent. 702 00:41:26,020 --> 00:41:29,020 The agency's job is to make sure 703 00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:31,740 the water companies obey the criminal law, 704 00:41:31,740 --> 00:41:36,020 but it doesn't do it, and the water companies do whatever they want. 705 00:41:36,020 --> 00:41:42,300 The alleged crimes of their directors are never prosecuted. 706 00:41:42,300 --> 00:41:45,180 They've built criminality into their business models 707 00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:47,700 because pollution is highly profitable 708 00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:50,340 and repeat offending has no consequences. 709 00:41:51,620 --> 00:41:54,900 Therefore, in the light of the remarkable absence 710 00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:57,420 of any counter-corruption measures, 711 00:41:57,420 --> 00:42:01,420 we demand an investigation into the Environment Agency. 712 00:42:04,460 --> 00:42:06,940 The key test for me on regulation... 713 00:42:06,940 --> 00:42:08,180 Less regulation. 714 00:42:08,180 --> 00:42:11,100 ...is it something that enables the builders, not the blockers? 715 00:42:11,100 --> 00:42:13,220 Cut guidance by 80%. 716 00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:15,140 We've also got to look at regulation... 717 00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:16,500 Regulations will go. 718 00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:19,540 ...and where it is needlessly holding back the investment. 719 00:42:19,540 --> 00:42:22,340 Reduce the amount and the burden of regulation. 720 00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:25,140 Rip up the bureaucracy that blocks investment. 721 00:42:25,140 --> 00:42:28,740 Northumbrian water recorded 30.1 spills per overflow over 722 00:42:28,740 --> 00:42:31,820 the course of 2023, 723 00:42:31,820 --> 00:42:36,100 280,000 hours and change in total. 724 00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:39,140 The chief executive Heidi Mottram 725 00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:44,700 received a bonus of £234,000 that year. 726 00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:49,380 Why did you take football tickets from the parent company? 727 00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:51,380 Well, I didn't. OK. 728 00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:53,980 CK Hutchison Holdings owns 75% 729 00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:56,140 of Cheung Kong Infrastructure Holdings, 730 00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:57,940 the owner of Northumbrian Water, 731 00:42:57,940 --> 00:43:01,340 and you declared £2,000 in football tickets and hospitality. 732 00:43:01,340 --> 00:43:05,580 Well, on that occasion, there was nobody from a water company 733 00:43:05,580 --> 00:43:08,220 that was involved in offering those tickets, there was nobody 734 00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:10,740 from a water company at that event. The parent company did. 735 00:43:10,740 --> 00:43:12,860 Well, I wouldn't have known that, they weren't present... 736 00:43:12,860 --> 00:43:14,540 Why didn't you know? You should have known that. 737 00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:16,660 You said that these sort of people should potentially be 738 00:43:16,660 --> 00:43:20,140 in the dock if they have been found to break the rules. 739 00:43:20,140 --> 00:43:24,140 You took £2,000 in tickets and hospitality for a football match 740 00:43:24,140 --> 00:43:27,940 from bosses linked to that company that polluted that water. 741 00:43:27,940 --> 00:43:30,980 Why should people in Northumbria think that you're fit for your job? 742 00:43:30,980 --> 00:43:32,380 Well, I certainly wouldn't have known that, 743 00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:33,940 and judge me by what I do. Why not? 744 00:43:33,940 --> 00:43:36,020 Judge me by what I do. That IS what you did. 745 00:43:48,940 --> 00:43:51,900 Environment Minister Steve Reid is pursuing 746 00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:55,580 legal action against a group of anglers trying to restore 747 00:43:55,580 --> 00:43:57,900 the ecosystem of their local river, 748 00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:01,660 on the grounds that cleaning up individual rivers 749 00:44:01,660 --> 00:44:04,300 is "administratively unworkable". 750 00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:07,220 Concerns have been raised about the number of leading Labour figures 751 00:44:07,220 --> 00:44:10,420 with links to lobbying firms working for water companies. 752 00:44:10,420 --> 00:44:12,780 Among the invited guests at the Government's 753 00:44:12,780 --> 00:44:16,100 International Investment Summit was Macquarie Bank. 754 00:44:16,100 --> 00:44:20,060 Described as the vampire kangaroo by critics, 755 00:44:20,060 --> 00:44:23,220 Macquarie presided over the near-collapse of Thames Water, 756 00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:26,740 leaving it £10 billion in debt after having illegally 757 00:44:26,740 --> 00:44:29,620 dumped billions of litres of raw sewage. 758 00:44:46,540 --> 00:44:47,580 Reuben? 759 00:44:55,380 --> 00:44:57,300 I know I can't be left alone with her. 760 00:45:01,860 --> 00:45:07,300 ...privatised water is a better deal than nationalised water. 761 00:45:07,300 --> 00:45:10,100 That the water privatisation, I believe, 762 00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:12,780 will go very successfully indeed. 763 00:45:12,780 --> 00:45:15,260 That will go very successfully indeed. 764 00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:17,780 And perhaps, therefore, we had better wait and see, 765 00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:22,020 so that we can pontificate in the light of the facts. 766 00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:23,300 How did it come to this? 767 00:45:25,300 --> 00:45:27,180 How did it...? 768 00:45:27,180 --> 00:45:33,860 How did it happen that England is the only place in the whole world 769 00:45:33,860 --> 00:45:39,500 whose water system is wholly privatised? 770 00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:43,660 That our seas and our rivers are full of shite? 771 00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:49,420 I just feel like we're trying to bring down England's 772 00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:52,820 biggest organised crime syndicate. 773 00:45:54,260 --> 00:45:57,540 I mean, they're not the mafia, these water companies, 774 00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:00,940 they're not a drugs cartel, but they do 775 00:46:00,940 --> 00:46:04,100 dump sewage a thousand times a day. 776 00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:07,700 And almost all of those are illegal. 777 00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:10,900 And the cash they've accumulated, 778 00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:15,860 £145 billion since privatisation, 779 00:46:15,860 --> 00:46:19,580 and they've got that because they seem to have built criminality 780 00:46:19,580 --> 00:46:21,260 into their business models. 781 00:46:23,420 --> 00:46:28,540 So they are like an organised crime syndicate 782 00:46:28,540 --> 00:46:33,420 and the CEOs and the owners are like crime bosses. 783 00:46:33,420 --> 00:46:38,180 I mean, they don't murder people, obviously, they're not assassins. 784 00:46:40,780 --> 00:46:45,340 But me and Peter are sitting here waiting for these crime lords 785 00:46:45,340 --> 00:46:46,820 to put things right. 786 00:46:48,580 --> 00:46:53,460 And if we leave them to their own devices, 787 00:46:53,460 --> 00:46:54,860 they never will. 788 00:46:57,020 --> 00:46:58,100 They never will. 789 00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:05,420 We've put the things that we own and care about together, 790 00:47:05,420 --> 00:47:09,780 we've put them into the hands of financial speculators 791 00:47:09,780 --> 00:47:12,500 whose job it is just to make money. 792 00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:16,660 We need to put the people who care in charge. 793 00:51:52,140 --> 00:51:54,900 Subtitles by Red Bee Media